Mark Levinson subwoofer poll
- Thread starter Jesse H
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I will have to listen closer. Didn’t really differentiate between the two. I checked the other day to see if there was any base back there cause you clearly cannot hear it from the front. When open I can definitely hear base coming from that area, but it’s certainly not loud But I don’t know if it’s one or both speakers.
I tested the system today with a Bass Test on Spotify. Front seats sound good. Second row is pretty good and it feels like some sub from the fake larger speaker in door. Not sure if it is coming from there or not. Not very much. I tested the back lift gate door and felt it but it is very faint. Treble at 0 Mids at say +2 and bass at +3-4. But Bass in lift gate in Red above is not strong at all. Very faint to the feel. Again with Bass test. I can’t say it’s not working, but if nothing much w bass test, other songs have nada. It is faint. Like others have experienced. But it works.
Hi, I'm color challenged, but I just checked, and I hear sound from the 2 smaller speakers, but nothing from the larger bottom left speaker. Am I right that is the bass speaker? Or could it just be a port cover of some sort, with the other two being the bass?
That is the bass speaker, the other two smaller ones are 2 way speakers.
Then mine isn't working either, at least on what I've been testing. I will put it on my list of things to have checked. The first one actually, so that is ok compared to some vehicles I've had. Does anyone know what the issue is on this, and what the fix is?
I don't think anyone has had it identified yet, but if we look at the historical issues with ML systems, either the amplifier is defective/failing or the speaker itself is a dud.
You can try a test track with very low frequencies to physically feel if it's working like this:
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I don't have any sound coming from what looks to be the sub.
Mine works but you have to have the volume up to notice/feel it. It also depends on the song and the frequency of the bass. I feel like the sub crossover in the ML amp is not that great or only sends specific frequencies there or the high water mark for the range is too low. I can even feel my rear gate vibrating if I put my hand on it and those top small speakers are not doing that for sure. Those top speakers seem to be treble/mid speakers mainly. It's also a pretty small sub so don't expect earth shattering bass from that thing.
I used one of the Spotify sub testing apps where you can play different frequencies to see when it kicked in and of course I can't remember which frequency was more prevalent. I want to say it was 55Hz and 60 Hz. I meant to tape or hold a Kleenex over the speaker to see if it was pushing air but forgot to do that.
If you use one of those Spotify sub testers just be careful not to crank up the volume and play it because you can blow your front speakers. You need to ease into it and stop if you hear your front speakers distorting like crazy. I was easily able to do that with some of those testers.
I used one of the Spotify sub testing apps where you can play different frequencies to see when it kicked in and of course I can't remember which frequency was more prevalent. I want to say it was 55Hz and 60 Hz. I meant to tape or hold a Kleenex over the speaker to see if it was pushing air but forgot to do that.
If you use one of those Spotify sub testers just be careful not to crank up the volume and play it because you can blow your front speakers. You need to ease into it and stop if you hear your front speakers distorting like crazy. I was easily able to do that with some of those testers.
I'll test a bit more with some heavy bass tracks and see if anything is actually coming out of mine. It is on the list to bring up when I take my GX in for the first time.
So I ran a test this weekend and noticed a few things about the stereo.
Configuration: Fader 100% to the rear. Trunk up for dancing. Standing under raised rear hatch.
Volume: Moderate
Observation: There was sound from the speakers in the rear hatch however it was not full range audio. The song that was used had kick drums and sub bass material. Only sound I observed was the Highs were clearly present, and the rear hatch mounted sub played the low sub bass material well for its size. What was absent was the midrange to mid-bass material.
Configuration: Fader 100% to the rear. Sitting in rear driver's side seat. Trunk closed.
Volume: Moderate
Observation: There was sound from the speakers in each door however it was not full range audio. Again, only sound I observed was the highs were clearly present in the doors, and the rear hatch mounted sub played the low sub bass material. What was absent was the midrange to mid-bass material.
It wasn't until the fader was biased toward the front that I heard any midrange to mid-bass material. The sound stage is heavily biased for the front seat audience. I feel that somewhere in history manufacturers/consumers decided that although there are more than two seats, the front two are the only ones primarily occupied significantly. Many remember the 90's sedans. You had equal sound from all speakers and bass was primarily driven from the back. I noticed that the focus is more on "surround sound" and the front speakers covering the bass range.
I will admit that it sounded good dancing when the rear hatch was open and fader set mid-range. Only issue is some high frequency material sounded excessively loud and sent me reeling a bit. I did sample everything with surround sound on/off with little change in rear performance.
Overall, I like the system. It could have been better executed with detailed sound manipulation. I feel that the system sound better the harder you push it. One last thing I noticed is the crossover/frequency response struggles with some vocal material.
In order to verify that the subwoofer is working, you will need a track with substantially low-frequency material, set the fader to the rear, and Bass to max in settings. You should Hi-Freq, Mid-Freq, and Sub-Bass material. you will not get anything like kick-drums/mid-bass.
I used R.Kelly - Seems Like You're Ready. It has a mix of sub-bass and mid-bass kick. Be warned it also has spicey lyrics for the sensitive people.
I am contemplating installing the rear 10SP driver and see if sound improves.
Configuration: Fader 100% to the rear. Trunk up for dancing. Standing under raised rear hatch.
Volume: Moderate
Observation: There was sound from the speakers in the rear hatch however it was not full range audio. The song that was used had kick drums and sub bass material. Only sound I observed was the Highs were clearly present, and the rear hatch mounted sub played the low sub bass material well for its size. What was absent was the midrange to mid-bass material.
Configuration: Fader 100% to the rear. Sitting in rear driver's side seat. Trunk closed.
Volume: Moderate
Observation: There was sound from the speakers in each door however it was not full range audio. Again, only sound I observed was the highs were clearly present in the doors, and the rear hatch mounted sub played the low sub bass material. What was absent was the midrange to mid-bass material.
It wasn't until the fader was biased toward the front that I heard any midrange to mid-bass material. The sound stage is heavily biased for the front seat audience. I feel that somewhere in history manufacturers/consumers decided that although there are more than two seats, the front two are the only ones primarily occupied significantly. Many remember the 90's sedans. You had equal sound from all speakers and bass was primarily driven from the back. I noticed that the focus is more on "surround sound" and the front speakers covering the bass range.
I will admit that it sounded good dancing when the rear hatch was open and fader set mid-range. Only issue is some high frequency material sounded excessively loud and sent me reeling a bit. I did sample everything with surround sound on/off with little change in rear performance.
Overall, I like the system. It could have been better executed with detailed sound manipulation. I feel that the system sound better the harder you push it. One last thing I noticed is the crossover/frequency response struggles with some vocal material.
In order to verify that the subwoofer is working, you will need a track with substantially low-frequency material, set the fader to the rear, and Bass to max in settings. You should Hi-Freq, Mid-Freq, and Sub-Bass material. you will not get anything like kick-drums/mid-bass.
I used R.Kelly - Seems Like You're Ready. It has a mix of sub-bass and mid-bass kick. Be warned it also has spicey lyrics for the sensitive people.
I am contemplating installing the rear 10SP driver and see if sound improves.
I went back and played some bass heavy tracks. I can get good bass response when sitting in the seats/front or rear. However, even when I'm hearing what sounds good there, if I go back and raise the hatch, I don't hear anything from the larger bottom single speaker. Not sure what is going on. I'll bring it up when I go in for my 6month service.
They won’t admit it because it’d cost them too much but the ML sub is defective
The ML subwoofer is filtered to only the lowest of frequencies.
If you want to validate that it works you will need four things:
1. Bass setting to midrange
2. Fader set fully rear
3. Material with sub bass notes
4. Volume around 45 - 50
With the hatch up, you will get poor sub bass performance because the subwoofer interacts with the interior of the vehicle.
Here is a song that has good bass and sub bass material. You will only be able to pick out the sub bass material when the fader is set to the rear. Otherwise, the front mid-bass will overpower and mask it.
Miguel - Adorn
If you run the test with the hatch down, you should here only high notes and sub bass notes.
If you run the test with the hatch up, place a sheet of paper over subwoofer and you will see the paper react to the speaker movement.
I feel that there is a misunderstanding of the function of a subwoofer in the full context of typical stereo application. My understanding is the SW is not the center of the show but a support cast. Designed to fill in missing parts but can be turned off and the show will still continue. Certainly, there are some systems that you can crank the knob to 10 and be heard down the street. If that is what you are desiring or expecting... ML system will not scratch that itch.
I love the ML system as a whole. And I like getting attention with loud music. However I have not been able to do both with this system as the music seems to stay in the car even as ridiculous levels. May be the old Bose trick of psychoacoustics. I still think it sounds better the louder it is cranked.
If you want to validate that it works you will need four things:
1. Bass setting to midrange
2. Fader set fully rear
3. Material with sub bass notes
4. Volume around 45 - 50
With the hatch up, you will get poor sub bass performance because the subwoofer interacts with the interior of the vehicle.
Here is a song that has good bass and sub bass material. You will only be able to pick out the sub bass material when the fader is set to the rear. Otherwise, the front mid-bass will overpower and mask it.
Miguel - Adorn
If you run the test with the hatch down, you should here only high notes and sub bass notes.
If you run the test with the hatch up, place a sheet of paper over subwoofer and you will see the paper react to the speaker movement.
I feel that there is a misunderstanding of the function of a subwoofer in the full context of typical stereo application. My understanding is the SW is not the center of the show but a support cast. Designed to fill in missing parts but can be turned off and the show will still continue. Certainly, there are some systems that you can crank the knob to 10 and be heard down the street. If that is what you are desiring or expecting... ML system will not scratch that itch.
I love the ML system as a whole. And I like getting attention with loud music. However I have not been able to do both with this system as the music seems to stay in the car even as ridiculous levels. May be the old Bose trick of psychoacoustics. I still think it sounds better the louder it is cranked.
Ok, I finally un-dumbed myself and focused on what a sub-woofer is designed to do vs. generalized bass response. Thanks Outasync for gently repeating what you said earlier. I set the fader to rear, bass to mid, and increased volume to 40ish, using Broken Bells "The High Road" (I had that in flac on a thumb drive in the GX, so I thought I'd use good source material). This time, the sub bass was noticeable sitting in the drivers seat. I went back, raised the hatch, and could feel it on my hand held against the sub on the hatch. I taped a piece of paper to it, and could see it moving in response.
As I said above, the bass always sounded ok, good even, in the drivers seat. But until I did as Autosync suggested, I didn't get much direct feedback from the sub in the rear hatch, which made me question whether it was working. As a result, I've changed my vote to 'yes' it works. Also as Outasync said, it isn't the type of sub bass that rocks the world around you, but that isn't what I expected or wanted.
Mark
As I said above, the bass always sounded ok, good even, in the drivers seat. But until I did as Autosync suggested, I didn't get much direct feedback from the sub in the rear hatch, which made me question whether it was working. As a result, I've changed my vote to 'yes' it works. Also as Outasync said, it isn't the type of sub bass that rocks the world around you, but that isn't what I expected or wanted.
Mark
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Good banter, thanks Outasync and Markmanner for the informational dialogue.
I’m thinking if I repeated the same test I will get similar results based on how others have perceived this “issue” so far.
Agreeing with Outasync, the optimal performance is noticed when accepting that the front/centered settings at 40+ volume expresses the best output.
Personally I really dislike that the power/volume are so front loaded and would prefer to have a true “centered” focal point (&/or) a system that stays full no matter where the fade is set. Sometimes it’s nice to have a conversation with passenger while good sound still comes from the rear.
Unfortunately, while this system is “fine”, it’s definitely subpar when considering what a $90k vehicle should have.
I’m thinking if I repeated the same test I will get similar results based on how others have perceived this “issue” so far.
Agreeing with Outasync, the optimal performance is noticed when accepting that the front/centered settings at 40+ volume expresses the best output.
Personally I really dislike that the power/volume are so front loaded and would prefer to have a true “centered” focal point (&/or) a system that stays full no matter where the fade is set. Sometimes it’s nice to have a conversation with passenger while good sound still comes from the rear.
Unfortunately, while this system is “fine”, it’s definitely subpar when considering what a $90k vehicle should have.
Hi, the volume at 40 and rear movement of focus is only to confirm the that sub bass is working when you listen only to the rear sub speaker in the hatch. It isn't how you would run the system, or need to run the system to get good bass. Maybe that is clear, but to be sure I wanted to mention that. He suggested it to counter my and other folks who were thinking we weren't getting any sub bass by testing it with other settings. I can confirm in my system, with the focus point centered in the middle or centered up front, that I get good bass response that has a sub component in it. Sounds great, and my volume is much lower than 40. It's just that if you have it centered normally, you won't really hear much out of the rear sub when you test it.
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- #20
OP here and I also changed my vote from NO to YES after testing it better.
My test tracks:
Chris Stapleton - Starting Over
Eagles - Hotel California MTV Unplugged version
Timblerlake and Stapleton - Say Something
I originally had the back hatch open and listened to my usual songs that I normally listen to at moderate levels, which for the GX was around 25. Translating those levels to my desktop with an inexpensive THX speaker/woofer setup lower frequency bass from those tracks could be heard and felt. Similarly in my Tacoma with an 8" ported subwoofer. My home theater has a 15" HSU Research subwoofer which can be felt around the house. I'm familiar whenever a lower frequency portion of a song is missing.
Anyways, with the volume at 25 it appeared that the subwoofer wasn't working. Heard nothing and visually couldn't see the driver vibrating so I assumed it was a dud. It wasn't until I read recommendations to increase things to 40 and set the fade to the rear did I barely notice the subwoofer doing some work. What's interesting is the crossover is set to the lower frequencies like what a properly sized and powered subwoofer would be doing. But due to the small size and how far away from the ears (perhaps the gain is also artificially low or underpowered) it's ineffective.
So it's working, but it feels like an afterthought and does less than what many aftermarket 6x9 speakers with 50 watts RMS could provide.
EDITED to add:
I rarely listen at very high volumes but despite my opinion that the ML system isn't worth the price of entry, I will praise that it doesn't fall apart when the volume is increased which is usually a testament to having some power and decent hardware. More than likely it's just not tuned to what many of us prefer.
My test tracks:
Chris Stapleton - Starting Over
Eagles - Hotel California MTV Unplugged version
Timblerlake and Stapleton - Say Something
I originally had the back hatch open and listened to my usual songs that I normally listen to at moderate levels, which for the GX was around 25. Translating those levels to my desktop with an inexpensive THX speaker/woofer setup lower frequency bass from those tracks could be heard and felt. Similarly in my Tacoma with an 8" ported subwoofer. My home theater has a 15" HSU Research subwoofer which can be felt around the house. I'm familiar whenever a lower frequency portion of a song is missing.
Anyways, with the volume at 25 it appeared that the subwoofer wasn't working. Heard nothing and visually couldn't see the driver vibrating so I assumed it was a dud. It wasn't until I read recommendations to increase things to 40 and set the fade to the rear did I barely notice the subwoofer doing some work. What's interesting is the crossover is set to the lower frequencies like what a properly sized and powered subwoofer would be doing. But due to the small size and how far away from the ears (perhaps the gain is also artificially low or underpowered) it's ineffective.
So it's working, but it feels like an afterthought and does less than what many aftermarket 6x9 speakers with 50 watts RMS could provide.
EDITED to add:
I rarely listen at very high volumes but despite my opinion that the ML system isn't worth the price of entry, I will praise that it doesn't fall apart when the volume is increased which is usually a testament to having some power and decent hardware. More than likely it's just not tuned to what many of us prefer.
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