Suspension Upgrade - ARB/OME MT64 Discussion

[S SUBERI]

Well put and very net.

 

[DJ’s Sled]

Thank you for your reply, DJ!

A few of my thoughts:

E-KDSS should be fine with all these suspension systems, unless you're really lifting the truck high which seems like it would be beyond about 2.5 - 3 inches or so. Maybe E-KDSS is fine no matter how high the lift, I'm not exactly sure. E-KDSS is the computer-commanded yet still mechanical disconnecting and reconnecting of the sway bars so you get the connected sway bar benefit on-road and the disconnected longer-travel benefit off-road.

The King 2.5 suspension system uses new sway bar links so the King 2.5s must lift enough to require extended links, or maybe they are the same length as stock but just beefed-up (and blue). I really don't know but I'm trying to figure it all out with this new truck!

The AVS system is purely for the harder or softer suspension settings available with the OEM shocks. The aftermarket shocks don't have Lexus AVS so the AVS plug from the truck's computer isn't plugged in to the new shocks and therefore no more harder/softer selectability via the knob on the dash.

To be perfectly honest, the only difference I can feel with AVS is that the truck rolls a lot more in Comfort mode if you hit some big bumps or wavy pavement. There's a truncated off-ramp on my local highway due to construction and I almost lost it while in Comfort mode cruising along at about 60 mph and I had to yank the wheel to the right to hit the off-ramp opening. I've taken it dozens of times in Normal mode and it's perfectly fine. Other than that, Comfort mode is not like you are suddenly riding in a 1969 Cadillac Coupe de Ville when you rotate the knob to Comfort. Similarly, Sport+ mode certainly sharpens cornering but it doesn't seem to make any noticeable difference on broken asphalt, highway expansion joints, etc.

I've also tested Comfort vs. Normal vs. Sport+ while running along at 60 mph through long desert straights on dirt that's relatively flat but also has washboards and ups & downs. No major differences noted. The washboards seem to rattle just as hard in Comfort vs. Sport+. If you hit a big dip or a long stretch of really tight washboards, the stock suspension can't handle it no matter what mode you're in and you'll drift off course.

This is exactly the reason I want to upgrade the suspension. The aftermarket's superior shock technology completely eclipses the stock system so AVS is no longer needed. The aftermarket shocks can act like Comfort mode and then act like Sport+ in an instant. The stock suspension is a compromise that does pretty darn good on-road as well as off-road and the masses of people are fine with it and the price-point is right for the bean counters at Lexus. Aftermarket suspension is expensive and not needed for the vast majority of the masses. If Lexus offered an Overtrail with the OME or King suspension already fitted, the increase in cost would probably be >$10,000. There would also be incredible liability as people drove off the lot and immediately rolled their GX550 while thinking they could drive with reckless abandon.

Bill, that is a freaking awesome set of information and a great reply. Thank you for expanding on those two basic systems with real world examples and your in-depth experience.
That’s a much much better explanation of what I was attempting to try to explain to folks and I’m sure that most of them did get it, but your explanation is way better.

And I got the confirmation back from Slee. Those two smaller parts that we were discussing earlier are in fact only for the LC 250. They are not needed for the GX 550 with this particular lift or height, etc..
And to kind of expand on that general theme, the modest lift that we did does not require a track bar or a diff kit either because we didn’t go that high. They gave me a nice in-depth discussion of when and why that would be needed. But it isn’t needed now for what we’ve done with my particular GX.
Again, thank you for letting everyone better understand how and why a new modern aftermarket system like this can easily surpass and improve upon the stock AVS parts and components that Lexus put in. I too thought about the liability thing, ha ha! I doubt they would ever go that route. However, I know you can get other brands and models with all lifted kits and all that kind of stuff. But again, I don’t know how that works legal or liability wise.

I’m still going to proceed with doing some pretty simple testing over the next several days here on local dirt roads throwing the various systems on, hooking up my Carista OBD scanner, etc. just to see.

 

[Bluegill]

Regarding other models that come with the extra off-road goodies, the Ford Raptor is a perfect example. The Raptor is a version of the regular F150 that has a souped-up engine, remote reservoir Fox shocks, bigger tires, and some different body panels, plus the misc. interior stuff like logos and red stripes everywhere. If you add up all the extras that go into a Raptor vs. a regular 4-door cab F150 with the 3.5 liter V6, it really doesn't add up to all that much. I'd wager that the biggest extra expense is in the suspension. Raptor replacement shocks total about $5-6k and regular F150 replacement shocks are about $850. Yet people line up to pay a good $25-30k more for the Raptor vs. a well-equipped mid-range F150 with the 3.5-liter V6. For Ford, getting an extra $25k for the Raptor badge vs. an F150 badge is genius and obviously well worth the added liability of all the youtubers that film themselves jumping their Raptors and breaking the frames in half.

 

[teghogh]

Regarding other models that come with the extra off-road goodies, the Ford Raptor is a perfect example. The Raptor is a version of the regular F150 that has a souped-up engine, remote reservoir Fox shocks, bigger tires, and some different body panels, plus the misc. interior stuff like logos and red stripes everywhere. If you add up all the extras that go into a Raptor vs. a regular 4-door cab F150 with the 3.5 liter V6, it really doesn't add up to all that much. I'd wager that the biggest extra expense is in the suspension. Raptor replacement shocks total about $5-6k and regular F150 replacement shocks are about $850. Yet people line up to pay a good $25-30k more for the Raptor vs. a well-equipped mid-range F150 with the 3.5-liter V6. For Ford, getting an extra $25k for the Raptor badge vs. an F150 badge is genius and obviously well worth the added liability of all the youtubers that film themselves jumping their Raptors and breaking the frames in half.

Bill, thanks for your feedback on all topics, this one included. Im sure the AVS setup is more expensive for lexus to integrate than aftermarket passive shocks. on the raptor topic, i have had both F150 raptor (gen2, Gen3) as well as the bronco raptor, the difference between them and the stock models are much more significant than shocks. aside from body differences, the chassis is beefed up, medium travel suspension that shares almost nothing with the regular models, upgrades axles, brakes, tires, engine etc.

i have a 25 OT, and i have yet to experience the washboard effect, atleast it is not significant enough to attract my attention. but am suffering from rough idle vibration in the cabin.
@OP, nice setup. im glad that it has resolved your issues. how much lift have you gained with this setup? any change in total travel? if your down travel has increased, does your shop recommend having a differential drop kit?